Russell, I think this is measured and well reasoned advice. One of the most difficult aspect of abuse is when we respond with bitterness. We are called to peace and must pursue it whenever and wherever possible. I do think we need great wisdom in knowing when and how to apply Paul’s words in Titus 3:10-11:
[10] As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, [11] knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
Having nothing more to do with them may indeed mean separating ourselves, moving on, and not tossing out snarky comments. Although I do believe we have an obligation to speak up if others are still in harms way.
A wolf is someone who deliberately pretends to be Christian in order to lead people away from God's teachings, right? I don't see how winsome people are wolves. You've made the case they're spiritually broken (and can become wolves). False prophets I don't even think are wolves unless there's a type of intent there.
This brought all manner of needful challenge towards growth in my perspective and practice. Thankful for words that penetrate to the heart for the sake of spurring us on towards greater maturity (Hebrews 10:24). Praying for good fruit to come from this excellent challenge.
Interesting point. The difference is who has power over the vulnerable. It’s one thing for a guy to act like a Pharisee at work—it’s another when he’s a Pharisee who pastors a 4,000-member megachurch and preaches every Sunday.
Anthony, we're mainly in agreement here. I think I tried to respond and failed, but here are two observations.
Firstly, I don't think we have more or less latitude for our behaviour at work than at church. I've been exploring the ethics of work (and if the church is your workplace, this framework still applies). Here's a recent post:
Secondly, I worry about our church leadership models. For me, they borrow too heavily from the boardroom and the sports field, and are too closely connected to Scripture. Here's something I wrote this past February:
I am, indeed and sadly, the person referenced in this essay (which Russell confirmed to me this morning). I have apologized for my comment to Russell on Aspergers, who did not share with me his offense before writing this essay and sharing my name with someone else.
As for the Pharisee aspect, I’d only add that Paul says,
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? (1 Corinthians 5:11–12, ESV)
Reacting to these, when personally experienced, firsthand, may not make one a Pharisee. The details of those events, which I wish on no one, were not shared with Russell when I expressed my joy and relief at leaving my former denomination after having gone through excruciating personal and institutional pain and multiple requests for help and care.
As I stated this morning, Matthew 5:23-24 guides your actions going forward for how you handled a private conversation and reached conclusions of judgement with limited information.
Hi Michael, it sounds like you felt very hurt in your ecclesial ecology. Thank you for sharing. If I had been at my best, I would’ve told you my offense in the moment and then have reached out directly to you (Mt. 18) before making you an anonymous example in this post. That’s spiritually mature and of you to claim ownership of the comment and also to have talked to me directly at the Acton conference this morning! I’ve shared my cell number with you on LinkedIn, so please text me so I can hear more from you about your experiences with reading this post and with your church contexts.
My family and I have been hurt by more than one winsome wolf, and I have always been afraid of turning into a snarling sheep. Paul Tripp has said something to the effect of we need more grace when we've been sinned against because our tendency is to sin in response to sin against us. Lord, help us -- I do not run in the denominational circles that are described in this post but I see it among those who have been truly hurt by the church in the way they share their stories. It's a tough balance to find.
That seems like a rather theologically self-serving definition of Pharisee, particularly about adding or subtracting from the Law. Jesus' core complaints about the pharisees centered on their hypocrisy, self-righteousness and attention to the letter rather than the spirit of the Law. You make it sound like it was primarily about the boundaries of canon--kind of an ironically pharisaical criticism.
While I'm not quite tracking with what you are hoping to communicate, it is good that you feel safe to be sincere and frank regarding your reading experience. I think we are both seeing (and saying) that through hypocrisy and self-righteousness, the Pharisee adds and subtracts from the law, and in doing this, misses its spirit.
I have to admit, I'm fairly confused by this post. I've been a member of 4 Reformed evangelical churches in 4 different cities over the last 25 years (Minneapolis, Louisville, Philadelphia, and Phoenix) and I've never seen any of the behaviors described, let alone on a scale that would be considered widely problematic. Can you provide more details or examples?
Hi, Scott. Thanks for taking the time to read. I'll let the examples and descriptions that I gave suffice, as I sought to highlight an unhealthy spirit rather than a person or group. Too, the Reformed soundscapes in the US might differ depending upon one's region and particular Reformed denomination. The main idea in this post is that responding to a Pharisee in bitterness can engender a "New" Pharisaic response... and so we must be vigilant to forgive when we are hurt by a Pharisee, and not create a toxic 'Pharisee polemic'!
Anthony, Thanks for this response. I think we're in strong underlying agreement. I think it helps to recognise that we gravitate towards the pharisaical and then try to work out which direction we're really travelling in, and whether that's the way we want to go.
I guess I have two reflections on your observation. First, I don't think it's OK to behave that way at work. I've worked with Phil Hanson for a few years and developed a framework around ethics and the workplace. A recent post would be:
The other is that I'm wary of western church leadership models, which borrow heavily on corporate and sporting metaphors and practices. Last February, I published this:
Russell, I think this is measured and well reasoned advice. One of the most difficult aspect of abuse is when we respond with bitterness. We are called to peace and must pursue it whenever and wherever possible. I do think we need great wisdom in knowing when and how to apply Paul’s words in Titus 3:10-11:
[10] As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, [11] knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
Having nothing more to do with them may indeed mean separating ourselves, moving on, and not tossing out snarky comments. Although I do believe we have an obligation to speak up if others are still in harms way.
Agreed! Well said. I think that discipline for the “wolf” is a grace for the bitten. Thanks for sharing your reflections!
A wolf is someone who deliberately pretends to be Christian in order to lead people away from God's teachings, right? I don't see how winsome people are wolves. You've made the case they're spiritually broken (and can become wolves). False prophets I don't even think are wolves unless there's a type of intent there.
Brilliant, brilliant piece.
Praise be to God, thanks for the encouragement, brother.
This brought all manner of needful challenge towards growth in my perspective and practice. Thankful for words that penetrate to the heart for the sake of spurring us on towards greater maturity (Hebrews 10:24). Praying for good fruit to come from this excellent challenge.
Praise the Lord! Thanks for sharing your reflections, Kelsey.
Anthony, Given that half the NT was written by a pharisee, is this surprising? Surely we're all pharisees: on the make or on the mend.
Enjoy...
Interesting point. The difference is who has power over the vulnerable. It’s one thing for a guy to act like a Pharisee at work—it’s another when he’s a Pharisee who pastors a 4,000-member megachurch and preaches every Sunday.
Anthony, we're mainly in agreement here. I think I tried to respond and failed, but here are two observations.
Firstly, I don't think we have more or less latitude for our behaviour at work than at church. I've been exploring the ethics of work (and if the church is your workplace, this framework still applies). Here's a recent post:
https://open.substack.com/pub/datchet/p/the-oppressive-workplace-sharp-elbows?
Secondly, I worry about our church leadership models. For me, they borrow too heavily from the boardroom and the sports field, and are too closely connected to Scripture. Here's something I wrote this past February:
https://datchet.substack.com/p/my-super-bowl-and-why-the-nfl-playbook?r=1otfa7
It would be nice to discuss our framework sometime...
Thanks for responding. Enjoy...
I am, indeed and sadly, the person referenced in this essay (which Russell confirmed to me this morning). I have apologized for my comment to Russell on Aspergers, who did not share with me his offense before writing this essay and sharing my name with someone else.
As for the Pharisee aspect, I’d only add that Paul says,
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? (1 Corinthians 5:11–12, ESV)
Reacting to these, when personally experienced, firsthand, may not make one a Pharisee. The details of those events, which I wish on no one, were not shared with Russell when I expressed my joy and relief at leaving my former denomination after having gone through excruciating personal and institutional pain and multiple requests for help and care.
As I stated this morning, Matthew 5:23-24 guides your actions going forward for how you handled a private conversation and reached conclusions of judgement with limited information.
Hi Michael, it sounds like you felt very hurt in your ecclesial ecology. Thank you for sharing. If I had been at my best, I would’ve told you my offense in the moment and then have reached out directly to you (Mt. 18) before making you an anonymous example in this post. That’s spiritually mature and of you to claim ownership of the comment and also to have talked to me directly at the Acton conference this morning! I’ve shared my cell number with you on LinkedIn, so please text me so I can hear more from you about your experiences with reading this post and with your church contexts.
My family and I have been hurt by more than one winsome wolf, and I have always been afraid of turning into a snarling sheep. Paul Tripp has said something to the effect of we need more grace when we've been sinned against because our tendency is to sin in response to sin against us. Lord, help us -- I do not run in the denominational circles that are described in this post but I see it among those who have been truly hurt by the church in the way they share their stories. It's a tough balance to find.
That seems like a rather theologically self-serving definition of Pharisee, particularly about adding or subtracting from the Law. Jesus' core complaints about the pharisees centered on their hypocrisy, self-righteousness and attention to the letter rather than the spirit of the Law. You make it sound like it was primarily about the boundaries of canon--kind of an ironically pharisaical criticism.
While I'm not quite tracking with what you are hoping to communicate, it is good that you feel safe to be sincere and frank regarding your reading experience. I think we are both seeing (and saying) that through hypocrisy and self-righteousness, the Pharisee adds and subtracts from the law, and in doing this, misses its spirit.
I have to admit, I'm fairly confused by this post. I've been a member of 4 Reformed evangelical churches in 4 different cities over the last 25 years (Minneapolis, Louisville, Philadelphia, and Phoenix) and I've never seen any of the behaviors described, let alone on a scale that would be considered widely problematic. Can you provide more details or examples?
Hi, Scott. Thanks for taking the time to read. I'll let the examples and descriptions that I gave suffice, as I sought to highlight an unhealthy spirit rather than a person or group. Too, the Reformed soundscapes in the US might differ depending upon one's region and particular Reformed denomination. The main idea in this post is that responding to a Pharisee in bitterness can engender a "New" Pharisaic response... and so we must be vigilant to forgive when we are hurt by a Pharisee, and not create a toxic 'Pharisee polemic'!
Anthony, Thanks for this response. I think we're in strong underlying agreement. I think it helps to recognise that we gravitate towards the pharisaical and then try to work out which direction we're really travelling in, and whether that's the way we want to go.
I guess I have two reflections on your observation. First, I don't think it's OK to behave that way at work. I've worked with Phil Hanson for a few years and developed a framework around ethics and the workplace. A recent post would be:
https://open.substack.com/pub/datchet/p/the-oppressive-workplace-sharp-elbows?
The other is that I'm wary of western church leadership models, which borrow heavily on corporate and sporting metaphors and practices. Last February, I published this:
https://datchet.substack.com/p/my-super-bowl-and-why-the-nfl-playbook?r=1otfa7
I hope I have those links right.
Enjoy...